Pleung Payu
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Thookatha
sarNie Elites
haha...yeah, couldn't have said it any better mai!Honey B said:
and i totally agree with you, honeyb, forgave him wayyyyy too soon! lol it would have been more reasonable and at the same time, more cute if they made him chase after her some more.
but yeah, responding to your question, if you want to change your username, you have to pm sarn or start another account with a different name.
Mai said:Well with "Mueng Dala", perhaps the message it's trying to send is that, the father does wrong, but he's not going to be only one that might pay for his deeds, but those loved ones that surround him. As for "Kep Pandin", how can one not understnad the ending? It's about patrioticism: Your country should always come before anything else, including love. That's the most honorable way to think, but not as if I believe it, for me love comes before my country
[post="22812"][/post]
mai... patrioticism i understand.. but who the heck is he going to fight for his country back with? THEY ALL FREAKEN DIED.. except for him <_<
I still think they shouldn't have gotten together at the end. I would've made a run too if I was her. Abuse is still abuse. It doesn't matter if he did it out of "love." So what if she was sleeping with other men..he still didn't have a right to rape her. I think it's his problem that he can't control his feelings and don't deserve to be with her.Mai said:
Anonymous112
sarNie Egg
Maybe it's just because it's AUM and OIL!
They probably just wanted them to get together at the end to please the viewers.
They probably just wanted them to get together at the end to please the viewers.
Rape is still rape, so how do you explain Num raping Kob in Dao Prasook? Or Tik raping Aom in Roy Lai? I mean most people see that as "romantic". But to me, there was no basis for it. Most pra'eks rape the na'eks just purely out of jealousy or misunderstanding.. Payu raped Aum not just based on the fact he was jealous, but also on the fact that she was set out to destroy his family. He never touched her up until his cousin died.Calisto said:
To me rape is never right, I never agreed with it. But it seems as if so many people find rape in this lakorn wrong, just purely based on the fact it didint look romantic afterwards :blink: But then I read comments about people looking forward to Bee getting raped by Chakrit or Aom getting raped by Tik :blink:
Honestly I dont think Payu did much abusing on Chart. I didnt see him slap her, nor did he hit her. He might have pushed her and chained her up, it's nothing worse than tying someone up, it just looks more brutal, cause it's chains :huh:
The fact that Chart took the money and refused to return it, showed that she too was not being reasonable. I'm sorry but the person who hurt her was Trin, and perhaps Pim's mother, but not Pim.
It seems as if Western fans see the whole basis of this story as the pra'eks fault, when really the lakorn is meant to show the faults of the na'ek :huh: . You have to look at the story from both sides, Payu was wrong for misunderstanding Chart...but Chart on the other hand was wrong for continuing to make him misunderstand. The truth was in her hands, why didnt she just say it? A lot of people first said that perhaps it was hard for her to talk about her past, but when really the main reason was to protect her daughter. What makes Chart right by destorying a whole family based on the fact one person (Trin) destroyed her life. Her wrongs are only equal to those of Payu, who also revenged on her; the person who hurted him and his family. Chart on the other hand, of course she was hurt...but was she not in a better place? Even after what Trin did, she still got her degree, she became a stronger person, her daughter is in a good home. She redeemed herself. Will Pim and Trin come back to life? Or will Nong Praew remain an orphan. How I see it, Chart's loss only made her gain. Payu's loss is a permanent one
Thookatha
sarNie Elites
haha...i couldn't have said it any better! lol all i know is that he did not lay a hand on her in terms of hitting. he almost does at certain points, but stops himself. his intentions were really just to scare her.Mai said:Rape is still rape, so how do you explain Num raping Kob in Dao Prasook? Or Tik raping Aom in Roy Lai? I mean most people see that as "romantic". But to me, there was no basis for it. Most pra'eks rape the na'eks just purely out of jealousy or misunderstanding.. Payu raped Aum not just based on the fact he was jealous, but also on the fact that she was set out to destroy his family. He never touched her up until his cousin died.
To me rape is never right, I never agreed with it. But it seems as if so many people find rape in this lakorn wrong, just purely based on the fact it didint look romantic afterwards :blink: But then I read comments about people looking forward to Bee getting raped by Chakrit or Aom getting raped by Tik :blink:
Honestly I dont think Payu did much abusing on Chart. I didnt see him slap her, nor did he hit her. He might have pushed her and chained her up, it's nothing worse than tying someone up, it just looks more brutal, cause it's chains :huh:
The fact that Chart took the money and refused to return it, showed that she too was not being reasonable. I'm sorry but the person who hurt her was Trin, and perhaps Pim's mother, but not Pim.
It seems as if Western fans see the whole basis of this story as the pra'eks fault, when really the lakorn is meant to show the faults of the na'ek :huh: . You have to look at the story from both sides, Payu was wrong for misunderstanding Chart...but Chart on the other hand was wrong for continuing to make him misunderstand. The truth was in her hands, why didnt she just say it? A lot of people first said that perhaps it was hard for her to talk about her past, but when really the main reason was to protect her daughter. What makes Chart right by destorying a whole family based on the fact one person (Trin) destroyed her life. Her wrongs are only equal to those of Payu, who also revenged on her; the person who hurted him and his family. Chart on the other hand, of course she was hurt...but was she not in a better place? Even after what Trin did, she still got her degree, she became a stronger person, her daughter is in a good home. She redeemed herself. Will Pim and Trin come back to life? Or will Nong Praew remain an orphan. How I see it, Chart's loss only made her gain. Payu's loss is a permanent one
[post="23094"][/post]
Well see I'm not saying that Aump's character was this total innocent. She did her fair share of damage. I think it just goes to prove that their relationship is too volatile for it to be healthy. But her actions don't negate the fact that he is abusive. Two wrongs don't make a right.
And I can't speak for anyone else but I've always had a problem w/rape scenes in any lakorn. No matter what happens in the aftermath. She doesn't even have to be crying and struggling (which is how n'eks almost always are) as long as she says no, its enough for me to call rape if he doesn't listen. I understand the use of them in lakorns though. After all you can't have pure innocent n'eks (gasps) have a healthy normal sex drive or they'll be seen as loose and immoral.
There's also other forms of abuse besides having to physically hit someone. It could be emotional or sexual too. It's called anger management people. Using the word love to justify anything is bull to me. I don't buy it. Not that I'm saying that relationships have to be all sunshine and gumdrops perfect but you have to draw the line somewhere.
Yeah I'm gonna get off my soap box now.
And I can't speak for anyone else but I've always had a problem w/rape scenes in any lakorn. No matter what happens in the aftermath. She doesn't even have to be crying and struggling (which is how n'eks almost always are) as long as she says no, its enough for me to call rape if he doesn't listen. I understand the use of them in lakorns though. After all you can't have pure innocent n'eks (gasps) have a healthy normal sex drive or they'll be seen as loose and immoral.
There's also other forms of abuse besides having to physically hit someone. It could be emotional or sexual too. It's called anger management people. Using the word love to justify anything is bull to me. I don't buy it. Not that I'm saying that relationships have to be all sunshine and gumdrops perfect but you have to draw the line somewhere.
Yeah I'm gonna get off my soap box now.
Thookatha
sarNie Elites
as most people have stated, "abuse is abuse", implying that it is wrong. obviously, it is wrong...no matter what. however, the case here is not whether abuse is right or wrong. the question is whether the "character" and the "motive" to which this character is pursuaded could see those boundaries.
...that's where the idea of "the individual" comes in.
i could easily say that i would never do the things that payu did to parichut...no matter what "troubles" i supposed she has caused, but i don't really know whether i would or would not do those things...because i have never been in those situations.
in addition, payu, the character, is driven by a completely different mindset that i am? we are two different people. and the fact that i know the truth (about parichut) changes a whole lot of stuff. ha
and yeah, although i can say that payu still should have not done the things he did (even without "knowing")....realistically speaking, NOT KNOWING can be very dangerous. say, we did not know anything about parichut, besides the fact that she is a jealous madwoman who has frauded our family by the millions ($$), and has threaten/physically attacked our love ones unrelentlessly...and through various ways. what is the "individual" going to do? well, most people stray with the term "eye for an eye"! ha it's human nature. we may never know until we, ourselves, are put in those situations.
and we have to take into consideration the love of a man for his family as well as the love of a man for his girlfriend. in payu's case, those are two "loves" that don't make a right; two loves that can tear and did tear him apart. no one mindset is consistent. there's so much that one can take...and to be torn between two great loves....hmmm... :blink:
also, don't forget what society he's in...a society where family is more powerful than anything.
haha...i guess i'll stop here....
...that's where the idea of "the individual" comes in.
i could easily say that i would never do the things that payu did to parichut...no matter what "troubles" i supposed she has caused, but i don't really know whether i would or would not do those things...because i have never been in those situations.
in addition, payu, the character, is driven by a completely different mindset that i am? we are two different people. and the fact that i know the truth (about parichut) changes a whole lot of stuff. ha
and yeah, although i can say that payu still should have not done the things he did (even without "knowing")....realistically speaking, NOT KNOWING can be very dangerous. say, we did not know anything about parichut, besides the fact that she is a jealous madwoman who has frauded our family by the millions ($$), and has threaten/physically attacked our love ones unrelentlessly...and through various ways. what is the "individual" going to do? well, most people stray with the term "eye for an eye"! ha it's human nature. we may never know until we, ourselves, are put in those situations.
and we have to take into consideration the love of a man for his family as well as the love of a man for his girlfriend. in payu's case, those are two "loves" that don't make a right; two loves that can tear and did tear him apart. no one mindset is consistent. there's so much that one can take...and to be torn between two great loves....hmmm... :blink:
also, don't forget what society he's in...a society where family is more powerful than anything.
haha...i guess i'll stop here....
I dont think it had anything to do with him placing his family first. It was a matter of right and wrong. The way he saw it, is that Chart wronged his family. He asked for her to consider and be kind to his niece who is only a child. It's pretty hard for him to side with Chart when she refuses to tell him the truth, the the truth as he sees it is her fault. Personally I think Payu would have picked Chart over his family anyday. If his family was all that important to him, he would have never kidnapped her to start with, he'd just let them attack her. Even in the end knowing what she has done and not knowing the truth yet, he still loved her. He refused to marry Yupang.Thookatha said:also, don't forget what society he's in...a society where family is more powerful than anything.
haha...i guess i'll stop here....
[post="23520"][/post]
Thookatha
sarNie Elites
yes, but "right and wrong" gets blurry when your family tells you things and you believe it...that's why it ties into "knowing" and "not knowing". i agree with you that if he "knew", he would probably pick her. i mentioned in my previous post that "not knowing was very dangersous". and in most thai lakorns, where either the prak'ek or nang'ek is poor and the other is rich, the love is forbidden. (status is a just an example). when i said that family had power over anything...i should have been more specific....but i got tired and went to sleep. lol!Mai said:
in payu's case, his family tells him all the time that they cannot accept parichut, nor can they stand her. and he does agree. he always says "you're right...", etc. i know that what he says and really think are two different things, but kidnapping her was definitely a huge part of the fact that his family was not at peace....which can agreeably be tied into right and wrong (although distorted) because both sides were attacking each other. actually, he even offered to be with her still, if SHE would stop what she was doing...not if trin, his cousin or whoever else (step-sister, mom...etc) would stop what they were doing.
....a tiny example, you've seen sometimes, where parichut tells him he misunderstands her...he always picks his family to believe over her. your family's words are sacred. that's why it makes things so much more complicated. how the pra'ek and nang'ek ends up to together in the finally is a whole other technicality...because, it's always tricky or in a round about way. that's what makes lakorns so long sometimes. jaja
...yeah, i've got some other stuff to say but i've only slept for three hours so far so i think i'll nap some more first. LOL...my brain is on overload! can't think.
p.s. we've got some smart people on here...with opinions! hehehe this is awesome!
The problem I had with Parichart, the whole time she was calling Payu mean for not understanding her and believing his family, she herself refused to give her side. He asked her to rebut what he heard, he asked her for why she was doing all that she was doing. He actually wanted her to deny all the things he's heard, but she refused....so what choice can he chose to believe??? When he's only hearing one side..and shes' refusing to deny it's not true? :blink: This is a guy who's clueless and he's grasping out for the truth, but he finds nothing that would make her actions justisfied :huh:
The first time he went to her house, it wasnt to attack her or accuse her, he went looking for answers,
I dont know, to be honest, I found Chart's doings more wrong to begin with. A lot of people say, if he loved her he shouldnt have hurt her, but the same can be said, if she loved him, why didnt she return the money; the money she claimed she was going to give back anyways? But in the end she claimed she only took it for her daughter. Payu may have treated her badly, but to me it seemed like he was putting on a front so she doesnt see his weakness for her....Cause behind her back, you can see sympathy in his eyes....Or the one time in teh hospital, when he was caressing her face, but when she regained consiousness, he pulled back his hand..
The first time he went to her house, it wasnt to attack her or accuse her, he went looking for answers,
I dont know, to be honest, I found Chart's doings more wrong to begin with. A lot of people say, if he loved her he shouldnt have hurt her, but the same can be said, if she loved him, why didnt she return the money; the money she claimed she was going to give back anyways? But in the end she claimed she only took it for her daughter. Payu may have treated her badly, but to me it seemed like he was putting on a front so she doesnt see his weakness for her....Cause behind her back, you can see sympathy in his eyes....Or the one time in teh hospital, when he was caressing her face, but when she regained consiousness, he pulled back his hand..
S
sunflower
mai:
and since we are comparing this lakorn to other lakorns with rape scenes... i find all rape scenes unacceptable! the title 'pra aik' just disappears when a guy does this, but GUESS WHAT? it all adds drama to the show! yes, the main reason plerng payu was a great hit was because of aump and oil's character... but i was mad that in this generation the thai authors could write it so that after so much abuse and torture, she was able to take him back so easily!
as a woman i find it unreal, that a woman like parichart was able to take payu back so easily! and as a viewer, i would like the scrip to make more sense... it is insulting to the audience to even think that after that much torture and abuse parichart would so easily take him back... aniwaise... what i just wrote is really confusing, huh? lol... i just wanted a reasonable ending. a guy who chains up, rapes, and slaps the girl he most loves should not have a 'happy ending' with her. and a girl who leaves her child with her sibling to take on a revenge plot and destroys a family, and one of the innocent victim happens to be the guy she truly found love with, should not have a 'happy ending' with him! am i making any sense?
didn't he slap her? on the bed... when he was gonna rape her.... if you don't count rape as an abuse and you think that a slap is an abuse... i don't know what to say :blink: i personally would take slaps rather than rape in any situation. and the whole chain thing.... it hurted her, didn't she have marks on her legs and stuff? i sickens me that she was able to forgive him so easily when he came back to her.
and since we are comparing this lakorn to other lakorns with rape scenes... i find all rape scenes unacceptable! the title 'pra aik' just disappears when a guy does this, but GUESS WHAT? it all adds drama to the show! yes, the main reason plerng payu was a great hit was because of aump and oil's character... but i was mad that in this generation the thai authors could write it so that after so much abuse and torture, she was able to take him back so easily!
as a woman i find it unreal, that a woman like parichart was able to take payu back so easily! and as a viewer, i would like the scrip to make more sense... it is insulting to the audience to even think that after that much torture and abuse parichart would so easily take him back... aniwaise... what i just wrote is really confusing, huh? lol... i just wanted a reasonable ending. a guy who chains up, rapes, and slaps the girl he most loves should not have a 'happy ending' with her. and a girl who leaves her child with her sibling to take on a revenge plot and destroys a family, and one of the innocent victim happens to be the guy she truly found love with, should not have a 'happy ending' with him! am i making any sense?
lol did you watch this lakorn? Cause that scene ur talking about wanst in the lakorn, it was just promotional clipsunflower said:mai:
didn't he slap her? on the bed... when he was gonna rape her.... if you don't count rape as an abuse and you think that a slap is an abuse...
[post="23668"][/post]
No he didnt slap her at all, definitely not when he raped her, all he did was pin her hands the bed