so which is the original hmong language? is it hmoob dawb or hmoob leeg? 'cause i was watching a video of hmoob suav(spell check) and they were speaking in hmoob leeg. and i read this article on wiki and it said tht this one dr. dude claims that "hmong" is only refer to hmoob dawb and not hmoob leeg. hella messed up! here's the sentence: Dr. Paoze Thao and others feel strongly that "Hmong" can refer only to Hmong Der people and does not include Mong Leng people. He feels that the usage of "Hmong" in reference to both groups perpetuates the marginalization of Mong Leng language and culture.
hmong!!!
- Thread starter stephanie
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I don't remember where I saw this any more been a while.. But it was a history clip of the Hmong.. I believe they were Hmong Leeg. Because it was a clip about Chinese Hmong and this is where Hmong originated from. Also about how the Chinese Hmong are still speaking Hmong Leeg with a Chinese dialect of course. When the Hmong started to migrate out of China then they started changing the language and the dialect. If you search on youtube I believe I found it there.. There's also really old clips of Chinese Hmong people speaking the original dialect too Hmong Leeg.
I'm not sure about moob lees being HMONG's first language but about your quote...
This is regarding many issues in the Hmong society that is very upsetting to many people. Well, some Moob Lees were upset because when most people write about Hmong, in English, Hmoob is usually spelled Hmong and not Mong. Thus, many Moob Lees felt that they were excluded...
Some of the people living in the Fresno area and in Minnesota might recall an issue years ago. In Fresno, there was a suicidal phase of various Hmong teenage. Between four years ('98-'02), eight Hmong high school teen took their lives. This drew attention because though the Hmong was less than 3% of the region's population, they accounted for almost half of Fresno County's teen suicides.
In response to the problem (post-conferences), Assembly Bill No.78 was passed. The purpose was to aim and encourage high school and middle school personnel to teach about the Secret War. It was to include the Hmong in this society where they exist, but does not in school textbooks. For the first time in Education, Assembly Bill No. 78 was for the Hmong people alone; however the problem occurred when a title was indeed necessary.
I forgot what the class title would become but it included the word “Hmong� in there- the controversy was that some people wanted Hmong to be spelt Moob. So it was suggested that it is Hmong/Moob. However with many other factors involve (won’t discuss ‘cause is writing too much), Assembly Bill78 is what it is today: The Vietnam War, including the Secret War and Southeast Asians in the war. So in short, it is a history class about Southeast Asians in the Vietnam War.
My Opinion: Then again, it is just another history class. The progress??? Not much progress because there are countries like Vietnam, Laos, Thailand, and Cambodia that many teachers would prefer to spend time on- because it is on the map??? This gets controversial so I’ll not say anymore and just keep my mouth shut.
The woman who contributed much to this project, Doua Vu (Title III Resource Specialist, FUSD), came to Fresno State and spoke to future Hmong teachers so much of what I said was what I learned from her speech. However, I also did my research before I state and give my opinion. This woman, she’s just so strong and is such a patriotic Hmong. After hearing her speech, I agreed with her. She said that the important thing wasn’t how the title was spelt but it was to fully incorporate the Hmong history into the societies where Hmong resides. She said that because she was a White Hmong (Hmoob Dawb), she used the spelling Hmong. If she were to be Moob Lees, she would certainly have use Mong in her collaboration with the district. The important thing is that we all (Hmong/Moob) came from the same place, practiced the same ritual, used the same tools and lived alike. At the end, there still isn’t a class dedicated to the Hmong people.
But yeah, this was one of the issues…
++++NOW Please also support Assembly Bill (AB) 2064. AB2064 will REQUIRE that all California high school students learn specifically about the SECRET WAR and about the Southeast Asian communities & their role during the war.
If the Governor signs AB2064, it will become a law. Thus I hope you support this movement.
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/ab2064
This is regarding many issues in the Hmong society that is very upsetting to many people. Well, some Moob Lees were upset because when most people write about Hmong, in English, Hmoob is usually spelled Hmong and not Mong. Thus, many Moob Lees felt that they were excluded...
Some of the people living in the Fresno area and in Minnesota might recall an issue years ago. In Fresno, there was a suicidal phase of various Hmong teenage. Between four years ('98-'02), eight Hmong high school teen took their lives. This drew attention because though the Hmong was less than 3% of the region's population, they accounted for almost half of Fresno County's teen suicides.
In response to the problem (post-conferences), Assembly Bill No.78 was passed. The purpose was to aim and encourage high school and middle school personnel to teach about the Secret War. It was to include the Hmong in this society where they exist, but does not in school textbooks. For the first time in Education, Assembly Bill No. 78 was for the Hmong people alone; however the problem occurred when a title was indeed necessary.
I forgot what the class title would become but it included the word “Hmong� in there- the controversy was that some people wanted Hmong to be spelt Moob. So it was suggested that it is Hmong/Moob. However with many other factors involve (won’t discuss ‘cause is writing too much), Assembly Bill78 is what it is today: The Vietnam War, including the Secret War and Southeast Asians in the war. So in short, it is a history class about Southeast Asians in the Vietnam War.
My Opinion: Then again, it is just another history class. The progress??? Not much progress because there are countries like Vietnam, Laos, Thailand, and Cambodia that many teachers would prefer to spend time on- because it is on the map??? This gets controversial so I’ll not say anymore and just keep my mouth shut.
The woman who contributed much to this project, Doua Vu (Title III Resource Specialist, FUSD), came to Fresno State and spoke to future Hmong teachers so much of what I said was what I learned from her speech. However, I also did my research before I state and give my opinion. This woman, she’s just so strong and is such a patriotic Hmong. After hearing her speech, I agreed with her. She said that the important thing wasn’t how the title was spelt but it was to fully incorporate the Hmong history into the societies where Hmong resides. She said that because she was a White Hmong (Hmoob Dawb), she used the spelling Hmong. If she were to be Moob Lees, she would certainly have use Mong in her collaboration with the district. The important thing is that we all (Hmong/Moob) came from the same place, practiced the same ritual, used the same tools and lived alike. At the end, there still isn’t a class dedicated to the Hmong people.
But yeah, this was one of the issues…
++++NOW Please also support Assembly Bill (AB) 2064. AB2064 will REQUIRE that all California high school students learn specifically about the SECRET WAR and about the Southeast Asian communities & their role during the war.
If the Governor signs AB2064, it will become a law. Thus I hope you support this movement.
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/ab2064
Here's a video explaining what was the first language, and I agree with him.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqacOagIhJI
Several years ago, a guy wrote about why Hmong has two dialects:
edit: The Truth Behind the Name Mong and Hmong
Written by: Num Ntxheb "Jesse" Faaj 20 July 2004
Translated by Tom Hang
"In the beginning, there was only one group of Mong, but when the Mong and the Chinese fought against each other, the Mong were scattered and divided into many groups. Since then, the Mong began to speak different languages and form various groups, such as Mong Dlu, Mong Yao Chua and other Mong that may be unknown to us today. Nevertheless, the articulation of the term “Mong� is still the best pronunciation for everyone. The pronunciation of the word "Hmong" is just for one group that had outshooted or transformed from those speaking the Mong language. The term "Mong" is the original or proto root word for the Mong language that the Mong Leng still use today.
The truth behind the “Mong Leng� and the “Hmong Der,� is that they are one group of people. Everyone was united with one goal in mind, which was to protect the name "Mong." Everyone fought against the same enemy from era to era regardless of the wars they were involved in.
Due to the wars, the term Mong evolved into two names or two distinguishable groups of people. A Mong group transformed itself and changed their language. After this transformation, they called themselves "Hmong" and stated that they were "Hmong Der", meaning the innocent one.
The cause for having the name "Hmong Der" was not due to conflicts or problems within the Mong. It was a means devised by a Mong female to save one group of Mong only. She sought ways to save the men of her group. During that time, the Mong and the Chinese fought a major battle. When the Mong lost the battle, the Chinese went after them. The Chinese marked all the Mong men for extinction. The sister of this group came up with an idea that "they needed to change their language and costumes to make them different from the proto-Mong; in that way, she could justify to the Chinese that her group was the innocent one. They looked different from the Mong that fought against the Chinese." Therefore, they changed their costumes and language into something different. From that time on, this group of Mong began to wear white skirts and pants with sashes when they dressed. The men changed from wearing full-length pants and extended crotches to fitted pants with short crotches. This group of Mong began to speak the language called Hmong Der and use the term “Hmong� as we know today. The truth behind this story is firmly supported, evidenced by a funeral ritual still practiced by the Hmong Der today. The Hmong Der still highly regarded their "sisters," sometimes referred to "aunts" with great respect. When a brother dies, the sister plays an important role in his funeral ceremony. It is because at one time in history a sister had saved their ancestors from Chinese persecution. When there is a misfortune in their families, Hmong Der will call on their sisters or their aunts to dwarf off or drive away the misfortune, so that the misfortune will not occur and do harm to their future generation or their descendents.
As for the Mong who have kept their original or proto language, their name has come to be known as “Mong Leng�. It was not that they had "leng" [meaning they have "veins," but the word “leng� in Mong means “admitting�] so they called themselves Mong Leng. They were the ones who had to admit that they had fought against the Chinese. They were the majority who faced the consequences and who were persecuted very harshly by the Chinese during this period because they hold on to their name, their language and culture, and their costumes. This group did not have a sister or an aunt to save them at that crucial time. Since then, they have called themselves “Mong Leng� because they admitted to the Chinese that they were the ones who had fought against the Chinese. Today, Mong Leng still hold on to the term “Mong.� They do not practice the funeral rituals like the Hmong Der who have regarded their sisters or their aunts highly during the funeral ceremonies.
Even though Hmong Der had escaped persecution that time, the Chinese never ceased to persecute the Mong as a people. Despite their different languages and different costumes, both groups remained committed to fight their enemy and helped each other until this day. The Mong had fought many wars with the Chinese. One time, the “Three Mong� [groups] combined their forces to fight against the Chinese, so the term “Three Mong� emerged, and later became the term “We Mong� [because “peb� also means “we�] that still in use today.
There are Mong living in China, Myanmar (Burma), Thailand, Laos, Vietnam, and other western countries. We have both Mong Leng and Hmong Der. One group may not have more population than the other, but when comparing all the Mong population combined in the world, the Mong who speak Mong Leng are the majority.
This story is not written to compliment or offend anyone, but it is written to dispel the truth behind the two names “Mong� and “Hmong.� This story is not coming out of the blue, but it is written to record the story that has been retold time after time by our ancestors who have passed on this story to us from grandparents to grandchildren and from generation to generation until today.
Such a story as this one, if not preserved and written down, it may disappear. Given this reason, I decided to write this story down and share it with you. If there is anyone who knows any story about the Mong people, I encourage you to write and share it with us so that we can all learn from our past history."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqacOagIhJI
Several years ago, a guy wrote about why Hmong has two dialects:
edit: The Truth Behind the Name Mong and Hmong
Written by: Num Ntxheb "Jesse" Faaj 20 July 2004
Translated by Tom Hang
"In the beginning, there was only one group of Mong, but when the Mong and the Chinese fought against each other, the Mong were scattered and divided into many groups. Since then, the Mong began to speak different languages and form various groups, such as Mong Dlu, Mong Yao Chua and other Mong that may be unknown to us today. Nevertheless, the articulation of the term “Mong� is still the best pronunciation for everyone. The pronunciation of the word "Hmong" is just for one group that had outshooted or transformed from those speaking the Mong language. The term "Mong" is the original or proto root word for the Mong language that the Mong Leng still use today.
The truth behind the “Mong Leng� and the “Hmong Der,� is that they are one group of people. Everyone was united with one goal in mind, which was to protect the name "Mong." Everyone fought against the same enemy from era to era regardless of the wars they were involved in.
Due to the wars, the term Mong evolved into two names or two distinguishable groups of people. A Mong group transformed itself and changed their language. After this transformation, they called themselves "Hmong" and stated that they were "Hmong Der", meaning the innocent one.
The cause for having the name "Hmong Der" was not due to conflicts or problems within the Mong. It was a means devised by a Mong female to save one group of Mong only. She sought ways to save the men of her group. During that time, the Mong and the Chinese fought a major battle. When the Mong lost the battle, the Chinese went after them. The Chinese marked all the Mong men for extinction. The sister of this group came up with an idea that "they needed to change their language and costumes to make them different from the proto-Mong; in that way, she could justify to the Chinese that her group was the innocent one. They looked different from the Mong that fought against the Chinese." Therefore, they changed their costumes and language into something different. From that time on, this group of Mong began to wear white skirts and pants with sashes when they dressed. The men changed from wearing full-length pants and extended crotches to fitted pants with short crotches. This group of Mong began to speak the language called Hmong Der and use the term “Hmong� as we know today. The truth behind this story is firmly supported, evidenced by a funeral ritual still practiced by the Hmong Der today. The Hmong Der still highly regarded their "sisters," sometimes referred to "aunts" with great respect. When a brother dies, the sister plays an important role in his funeral ceremony. It is because at one time in history a sister had saved their ancestors from Chinese persecution. When there is a misfortune in their families, Hmong Der will call on their sisters or their aunts to dwarf off or drive away the misfortune, so that the misfortune will not occur and do harm to their future generation or their descendents.
As for the Mong who have kept their original or proto language, their name has come to be known as “Mong Leng�. It was not that they had "leng" [meaning they have "veins," but the word “leng� in Mong means “admitting�] so they called themselves Mong Leng. They were the ones who had to admit that they had fought against the Chinese. They were the majority who faced the consequences and who were persecuted very harshly by the Chinese during this period because they hold on to their name, their language and culture, and their costumes. This group did not have a sister or an aunt to save them at that crucial time. Since then, they have called themselves “Mong Leng� because they admitted to the Chinese that they were the ones who had fought against the Chinese. Today, Mong Leng still hold on to the term “Mong.� They do not practice the funeral rituals like the Hmong Der who have regarded their sisters or their aunts highly during the funeral ceremonies.
Even though Hmong Der had escaped persecution that time, the Chinese never ceased to persecute the Mong as a people. Despite their different languages and different costumes, both groups remained committed to fight their enemy and helped each other until this day. The Mong had fought many wars with the Chinese. One time, the “Three Mong� [groups] combined their forces to fight against the Chinese, so the term “Three Mong� emerged, and later became the term “We Mong� [because “peb� also means “we�] that still in use today.
There are Mong living in China, Myanmar (Burma), Thailand, Laos, Vietnam, and other western countries. We have both Mong Leng and Hmong Der. One group may not have more population than the other, but when comparing all the Mong population combined in the world, the Mong who speak Mong Leng are the majority.
This story is not written to compliment or offend anyone, but it is written to dispel the truth behind the two names “Mong� and “Hmong.� This story is not coming out of the blue, but it is written to record the story that has been retold time after time by our ancestors who have passed on this story to us from grandparents to grandchildren and from generation to generation until today.
Such a story as this one, if not preserved and written down, it may disappear. Given this reason, I decided to write this story down and share it with you. If there is anyone who knows any story about the Mong people, I encourage you to write and share it with us so that we can all learn from our past history."
Hey I was wondering if I can put what you wrote onto my myspace if that's ok with you because I believe that this is such a great story in telling and letting other people know about what happened in the hmong history....
I'm not the writer, but if you want to put it on your myspace, I guess you can credit the writer. I should have credited him, will edit my post.
the title is : The Truth Behind the Name Mong and Hmong
Written by: Num Ntxheb "Jesse" Faaj 20 July 2004 (7 Hli, tim 20, 2004)
Translated by Tom Hang
s0rrow_chick
sarNie Egg
very interesting... ha! where i live majority of people i know who have the same last name as me is green while only my clan/[immediate/extended] family w/e you call it is white... weird huh?...
I believe whether we are Hmong or Mong we at the end are still the same kind. No matter what we have the same history whether we deny it or try to change it. We all followed the same history and belief. I am a Hmong Dawb and I had recently found out some difference between the two. No matter what I respect both groups because we all are still Hmong/Mong and still are humans!!!
Mly14 Thanks for sharing this very special passage!!! By the way, I had copy this passage and added a little of my insight into my blog for today's post. I hope you didn't mind and of couse because I don't believe in not crediting I had credit you and the writer and the translater and the website where i had recieved the passage from(SW's website, tehehehe).
refer to my blog at http://mozemoua.wordpress.com/
Mly14 Thanks for sharing this very special passage!!! By the way, I had copy this passage and added a little of my insight into my blog for today's post. I hope you didn't mind and of couse because I don't believe in not crediting I had credit you and the writer and the translater and the website where i had recieved the passage from(SW's website, tehehehe).
refer to my blog at http://mozemoua.wordpress.com/