General Vang Pao Arrested????

JaM

1TYM hwaiting!
This was on the front page of today's newspaper and when I read it, seriously, it felt like a joke. Who in the world in today's time and age would think of doing something like this? They should learn by now that an eye for an eye makes the world blind. In what good will attacking Laos do? Give the Hmong people a bad name? Spread more hate for us throughout the nation than there already is? Get Laos to start something with the US? They should have thought about it more, before they went ahead with the plans.

I know you guys are saying that he did it to save the Hmong people in Laos, who are living in fear of the Laotian government, but for some reason it doesn't seem like that's the main reason behind this plan. It feels more like an excuse to me. I think of VP as a crazy old man who needs to stop dreaming about making Laos his country, and that is what I feel the reason behind this is for. He wants take Laos and make it Hmong-land, basically.

My parents disagree with me and thinks that he's being framed. However, from what I've read, the source did seem a little... unclear? They referred to how they found out about it as a "complaint." I don't know about you guys, but when something is called a "complaint," I automatically think of whiny people who only go off from opinions and not facts. However, I'm still not for VP...sorry, just some of my ungathered opinion.

Oh yeah, and fwekles, I don't believe that VP is the sole reason why we are here in the US, and able to use the internet (although, I find that sort of illogical because they have internet access in SE Asia, too). He fled to the US after they pulled out of the war, leaving people behind. If he really wanted to protect them, wouldn't he had stayed and help out?
 

dynomite

Wanna-Be เจ้าชู้
LAOS WAS NEVER OUR COUNTRY & IT WILL NEVER BE...
Innocent Bystander just reading peoples thoughts... but this was something I didn't understand. YM_gurl I assume you are Hmong. Can you tell me where Hmong people come from if not from Laos?
 

champthong

sarNie Hatchling
I'M SHOCKED!!! i read this in THE SACBEE (NEWSPAPER) TODAY..

THEY ARE RETARDED!!!!!!! WHY DID THEY DO THAT?

LAOS WAS NEVER OUR COUNTRY & IT WILL NEVER BE...WHAT WERE THEY THINKING?????? WHY WHY WHY?!!!???

I UNDERSTAND OUR HMONG PEOPLE ARE GETTING KILLED.. BUT THIS IS NOT THE ONLY WAY TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM..

--- I THINK GEN. VANG & THE GUYS ARE GONNA GET IN JAIL... OH WELL..

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Kuao2xQI2hs
It is sad to hear that Hmong people are getting killed, but if Hmong people are attacking (setting bombs off buildings and killing other citizens) what do you expect the law enforcers to do? If there are not attacking and fleeding, people will not be killed. Only punish people that do harm to others..
 

JaM

1TYM hwaiting!
Innocent Bystander just reading peoples thoughts... but this was something I didn't understand. YM_gurl I assume you are Hmong. Can you tell me where Hmong people come from if not from Laos?
Hmong people really have no country. (short Hmong history/info coming up...) It is thought that they originated from China, but long ago they started to migrate down to SE Asia (although a lot still remained in China). So now there are many different groups of Hmong people all over Asia. The majority of the Hmong population who are now in the US is the group that migrated to Laos. During the Vietnam War, since the US troops were unfamiliar with the mountainous regions of Asia, they got the Hmong people in Laos to help them out. However, when they pulled out of the war because they weren't gaining anything, they left the Hmong people behind, who then got prosecuted by the Lao government for helping the US. Therefore, they had to flee for their life, crossing the Mekong River, to seek refuge in Thailand, where refugee camps were set up for them. Those who didn't get to Thailand are still stuck in Laos today, still getting prosecuted by the govn't. The ones who made it to Thailand were to reside there until they come over to the US. There are still a lot of refugees in those camps, still waiting for their approval to come to the US.
 

ceda_lee

sarNie OldFart
Lets take in different perspective, do you really think that Vang Pao actually help the Hmong people? Have you ever think about if it wasn't for Vang Pao Hmong people would not have to fled Laos? Maybe Vang Pao is the cause of all the problems that Hmong people are facing or have to go through...Maybe Vang Pao lies to his people and/or use them to gain his reputation...Vang Pao may be the cause of all the horrible lives that some Hmong people had to face...how can you say to come together and support him? If he did wrong then he should be punish...otherwise there is no point of having rules, etc...
Hm...doesn't make very much sense to me cause he was in the war himself...

As we've seen in all races/cultures...there were wars and deaths between the officials/leaders to get to where they are today...for example, the North and the South fought the civil war...each leader/captain controlling their troops tried to get the other leader and his troops killed...same with the Koreans and the Chinese during the 10 Dynasty era (correct me if I'm wrong)...Vang Pao isn't necessarily "bad" for his part of that doing...I mean, I don't see the point of trying to overthrow a gov't for oneself...what the purpose when he knows he can't win...right????
 

ceda_lee

sarNie OldFart
I feel like puking right now...over the fact that when thousands are dying, the US gov't ignored it...but when they get information that the Hmong are going to kill others, they quickly respond...what kind of sh*t is that??? I bet if if the Hmong leaders were planning this on Laos soil, then they would ignore it also...
 

ceda_lee

sarNie OldFart
Credit to Choua Yang!

--I am very frustrated, disappointed, and sad over General Vang Pao's arrest. This is probably the last straw for me in my beliefs, support, and loyalty towards this country--my country. I use to wonder what drove people to the extreme actions such as suicide bombers or the Virginia school shooting. I think I am coming close to understanding. "Citizens of the United States cannot become involved in a plot to overthrow a sovereign government with which the United States is at peace," Drew Parenti, FBI special agent said. If this is true, shouldn't George fucken Bush be impeached!! Thirty years ago, the CIA went to the Hmong people for help on waging a covert war in Southeast Asia, particularly Laos. It was the Hmong that helped save thousands of American lives.. It is documented of the significance the Hmong soldiers were to the United States in the Vietnam war. The Hmong soldiers gave their own lives willingly in order for the American pilots to make it home. One story written by Jane Hamilton-Merrit tells one of many accounts: "Suddenly over the radio Sgt. Moua heard the excited voice of the American pilot calling for more planes, more t-28s, more bombs! The American pilot was calling for help. Sergeant Moua and his team of 30 had been overlooking the fighting. Moua saw two parachutes. The American pilots had jumped from their plane directly into enemy territory. Moua ordered his team to run towards the pilots. After running for about an hour and a half, they neared the parachutes. They looked for signs or sounds of Vietnamese soldiers, but noticed nothing unusual. That worried the Hmong soldiers because they knew that the enemy also watched the parachutes. When the Hmong soldiers came to an open space, the Vietnamese opened fire on them, seriously wounding four of their team. The Vietnamese had been waiting for them. The Vietnamese knew they would go to save the Americans pilots."

During the Vietnam war, we sure were useful to the United States. Since that's not the case anymore, this problem continues to be ignored. It's being ignored because Paris Hilton was sentenced to how many fucken days, Lindsay Lohan got drunk, or Britney Fuckface Spears shaved her head! Our society is pathetic! The United States promised what they could not live up to. The aftermath of the war led to this which the United states is responsible for. There were Hmong families left behind. The Americans abandoned their allies. Hmong families fled into the jungles in fear of repercussions by the communist Lao government. And for 30 years, the Hmong people faced genocide. Children starved, women raped, men tortured at the hands of the lao government. There have been repeated cries from the jungles of Laos to the United States asking for help but no response.

Choua said it and she said it well!!!
 

triANGgo

lekie_lucious
I'M SHOCKED!!! i read this in THE SACBEE (NEWSPAPER) TODAY..

THEY ARE RETARDED!!!!!!! WHY DID THEY DO THAT?

LAOS WAS NEVER OUR COUNTRY & IT WILL NEVER BE...WHAT WERE THEY THINKING?????? WHY WHY WHY?!!!???

I UNDERSTAND OUR HMONG PEOPLE ARE GETTING KILLED.. BUT THIS IS NOT THE ONLY WAY TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM..

--- I THINK GEN. VANG & THE GUYS ARE GONNA GET IN JAIL... OH WELL..
Exactly.......
 

snow

sarNie Egg
I understand that everyone has a different perspective on this situation, but who are we to make stupid comments without knowing the history of the Hmong people. Our history was never in writing, everything we hear are all through ears, and we know Hmong people like to make up stupid things. As far as I know, our generation don't give a damn about learning our history. Seriously, how do you know VP killed so many people to become leader? Any facts? Also, how do you know his plan was to overthrow the lao government? You only heard one side of the story, remember there's always two sides to a story. As for myself, I don't like him but I don't hate him too. I agree that his action was unacceptable but I am not going to sit here and bash about the man because it will only show the world how we hmong people are.
 

jensen

sarNie Fansubber
wow wow wow lol !!!!!!

I don't know what were the real intentions of General Vang Pao and his group, because i didn't have time to talk to him before him being arrested lol, so i can't say anything about it.
But about the way he intended to do, i disagree. Has he been to Laos these last years? How does he know the current situation of Hmong people there? I don't mean that what that has been said about it is wrong, cos i truly believe that there are still groups of Hmong people living in bad situations, but maybe General Vang Pao like thousands lao ppl from abroad, still think that Laos is the same as it was in 1975 when the Communists made the coup and got the country.

As it is here in France, there is a lot of propaganda against the current lao government. People formed groups n intend to take the country back and set up the monarchy. I've talked to a lot of old people who still remember what happened thirty two years ago. Some still think that things remained the same after they left Laos. I've talked to some influent people in Laos too, n that helped me have my own opinion about it.

No matter how good were General Vang Pao's intentions, i don't think that using violence with guns, bombs, weapons could solve the problems. Did he forget that there are a lot of innocent people there too? that using bombs won't only kill the lao soldiers? We can target the place we want bombs to explode, but we dunno how far it damages can be extended to. It's like how he tried to do, he did with his men, but did he ask other Hmong ppl in the US, other foreign countries n in Laos, if that's how they wanted it to be done? but see the results, he has been arrested and all Hmong ppl are affected by that, some afraid by how they can be perceived by the international opinion, etc...

Even the reputation becomes bad about Hmong people, i don't think ppl should take it to heart too much. I don't think everybody would think this way. There r thousands of Hmong ppl all other the world, right? Would it exist ppl who think that all those ppl are terrorists? That would be stupid no?

For me Hmong people are Lao too. Someone above said that Hmong people have no land and came from China. But don't we all come from China a few centuries ago? We all come from the same land but we dispersed to live somewhere in Asia. My definition of home land is "any place where you feel good at" (Laos, Thailand, USA, Europe...).That's true that the situation of some Hmong people at the extremities of Laos is alarming. They have been in the middle of opposite troups during the war, helping the Americans, and now, they pay their loyalty to them at a very expensive price without any help from the US government.

If i'm not wrong, i've seen some Hmong people working in the current lao government, but i don't really know how live others, except one interview that French reporters made secretly about Hmong ppl at the extremities of the country and read some articles written by Amnesty International. So if you guys know more about it, or have links to some international reports or interviews, please show me !!!

My opinion about people (hmong or not) who try to get the country back to the ancient form of government, i would say it's just over. I've not endured those bad situations as a lot of our elders did, so i can't know what they feel exactly, except imagine how they feel. What i know is that it is impossible to get a country, after 32 years, back to the monarchy. Our parents have suffered much i understand that, that's why they fled Laos, but we all have to think of ppl who live now in Laos and think of those who stayed there after 1975. They have suffered too. And who we are now to want a change in a country we left when it was in war? I don't judge people who fled the country in 1975 (my parents did too and also a lot of relatives) and i don't judge people who stayed there either. Our parents all made the choice which suited more to their needs and situations that time.

Now, after 32 years, after having a good life abroad, yeah even leaving the country was a real pain, with time we got a better life no? better than the half of the Lao population there. We all the last generation got the opportunities to study and have a good job. Laos isn't General Vang Pao's country, and it doesn't belong to their leaders. Laos belongs to people who live there, to the population. And if any kind of group wanna try to take the country back, they should ask the real owners before no?

Even we were born n grew up in Laos, we eat lao, we speak lao, i don't think we know the country better than people there. We can't really think lao, cos a lot of years separate us from the country. If we look at the current infrastructures, we haven't been there when the first block of cement has been posed, and the latest historical of the country? What do we know about that? nothing much, only what we've read in articles, books, or related by people. We know Laos from through our parents and elders eyes, which is true. That was their memories of the good and bad happened, lived there, and all those things are true too. Our knowledge of Laos can be completed by the opinion we could make ourselves when we go there and see how things really are.

I understand too that our parents want to go back to Laos, cos even they have spent a lot of years abroad, their heart remained in their native country, which is totally normal. We can never feel as good as at HOME.

Now the current Lao groups wanting to take Laos back, just ask Lao people there if they accept that Lao from abroad to come back and change everything, they should not be surprised if they say No and shouldn't wonder why.

Oh and i've read above that we should support our leaders, or something like that, even if we don't support the things they do, we just have to support and be by their side, cos that's what we would do with friends too. What does that mean? you support his ideas, but when he put in practice his plans, u just say, oh that's not good, i support u but dun imply me if u r arrested? or that means no matter what you do, i'm gonna support you and let you do the things which makes u happy n seems the best for you, even if it includes causing damages to others? Then ok General Vang Pao can go to Laos to make his bombs explode, as long as it makes him happy, i'm happy?

I'm weird, i have a different vision of support in friendship or anything. I support and will never give up on a friend no matter how he/she is (qualities, defaults), but if what he/she does not seem good to him/her or to others, i wouldn't stay quiet and support. In my dictionnary, the definition of Friend is more complex, it includes yelling at my friend if they do something wrong, reason them, even if it makes my friend hates me for not following his ideas. A good friend doesn't necessarily say yes to all the things a friend does.

WOWWWWWWWWWWWWWW sorry, i'm too talkative....Sorry for this long speech. It was only my opinion, i'm not for or against General Vang Pao, i'm not for or against the current government, i just tried to analyze the situation with objectivity. So no offense haha, peace n love....... :p
 

Muddie Murda

smile...
Hmm...interesting.

I heard about this but just the name Vang Pao and then the word "money."

Kill thousands of innocense to save thousands of innocents?

Or...
 

YM_gurl

sarNie Oldmaid
Innocent Bystander just reading peoples thoughts... but this was something I didn't understand. YM_gurl I assume you are Hmong. Can you tell me where Hmong people come from if not from Laos?
this you should know, hmong people are orginated from CHINA.. not to be mean but do some research... :)


-- whose parents been giving gen. vang pao money? LOOK WHAT YOUR PARENTS SUPPORTED. AHAHAA... J/K..

THANKS TO GEN. VANG PAO, NOW MORE PEOPLE IN LAOS WILL DIE... HE KNEW WHAT HE WAS GONNA GET HIMSELF INTO.. HE RISKED IT..
 

venosat

sarNie Hatchling
After reading all of your comments, this whole situation just reminds me of a quote by Martin Niemöller, 1892-1984

"They came for the communists, and I did not speak up because I wasn't a communist;
They came for the socialists, and I did not speak up because I was not a socialist;
They came for the union leaders, and I did not speak up because I wasn't a union leader;
They came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak up for me."

I hope the younger generations of Hmongs will take this quote and ponder it. Just a thought.....thats all.
 

natty

Chubs
I understand that everyone has a different perspective on this situation, but who are we to make stupid comments without knowing the history of the Hmong people. Our history was never in writing, everything we hear are all through ears, and we know Hmong people like to make up stupid things. As far as I know, our generation don't give a damn about learning our history. Seriously, how do you know VP killed so many people to become leader? Any facts? Also, how do you know his plan was to overthrow the lao government? You only heard one side of the story, remember there's always two sides to a story. As for myself, I don't like him but I don't hate him too. I agree that his action was unacceptable but I am not going to sit here and bash about the man because it will only show the world how we hmong people are.

and how do you know his intentions were not bad? how do you know his plan isnt to overthrow the laos government after buying 9.8 million dollars worth of war weapons and the col that sold him the weapons said just that? and seriously how do you know that vp didnt kill so many people after becoming leaders? oh i dont know i mean those people who are saying only heard from their grandparents and their grandparents friends.. seriously.. they were all probably lying...
 

gloria

sarNie Juvenile
well, his actions are already showing the world how the hmong people are..so i don't know why people are making such a big fuss about it..as much as we want to be good and committed to this country...since vp is our general and leader..he's not setting a very good example at the moment...others are going to hate on the hmong people despite how good or how loyal we are...i hope u guys know that...
 

Muddie Murda

smile...
this you should know, hmong people are orginated from CHINA.. not to be mean but do some research... :)
Ummmmmmm....I don't think knowing Hmong's culture is "Common sense." Dyno basically asked a very simple question which could easily be answered nicely, not told off to go and do some research. I think some Hmong people should do some more research on their own people. Don't want to go off topic, but don't want to make a thread either. Hmong people from China? Hmm ever heard Hmong originating from Europe or Mongolia? Do some more research, you'll be surprised. :D
 

snow

sarNie Egg
and how do you know his intentions were not bad? how do you know his plan isnt to overthrow the laos government after buying 9.8 million dollars worth of war weapons and the col that sold him the weapons said just that? and seriously how do you know that vp didnt kill so many people after becoming leaders? oh i dont know i mean those people who are saying only heard from their grandparents and their grandparents friends.. seriously.. they were all probably lying...
I didn't say I know or don't know. All I said was that if people are going to make such comments, they have to have facts to support them. When did I said about him killing people was false? And when did I say that his plan to overthrow the lao government was not true? I was only asking where people got sources from? You should read my statements clearfully before attacking. I am not here to back him up or argue with you guys. I just feel that you people should really make up your mind on what you want VP to do. One minute you are complaining he's not doing anything to help the people in Laos, the next minute you hate him because he was going to do something. All these may sound like I support the guy but honestly I don't care. I'm just annoyed at immature people making stupid comments.
 

natty

Chubs
Then you dont have to read the comments snow. Instead of attacking others for voicing their opinions cus you cant stand it, dont read it. It's really that simple. And i did not say that you said that.. I'm asking just like you are asking everyone else. You were asking how everyone know that he attacked and killed, how they know that he's overthrowing. So i turned around and ask you the same thing. So you don't really know, just like some people don't know. Hey and maybe some do know what is the truth. Some things can't always be proven.

Also to defend those who want him to do something. They want him to help the hmong people still being terrorize in laos but that doesn't mean for him to kill or plan to kill innocent bystanders in the process. Just like what ceda said, you can support the guy but not support his actions. I dont find those who think that immature. I may not understand what they meant but they're not immature for believing that.
 

SunStar

sarNie Elites
i read out local newspaper yesterday about his arrest and it felt like a conspiracy to cover up the genocide of the Hmong people in Laos....

the article stated that he and his followers were planning to kill thousands of people to over throw the Lao government and he was considered a terriost....

i mean...that is a complete cover up!!! towards the end of 2006 and beginning of 2007, issue of them Lao government killing Hmong people in the jungles have been highly publicized and now, the Lao government is coming up with this cover up to excuse the claims....it's so pathethic and wrong!

no matter if you like General Vang Pao or not, you should focus on how this will impact the Hmong communities....this is a major set back for those who have been working hard to bring freedom to those still in the jungles....it's a devastating blow!
 
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